News from the Throne Room –HBS to post new apps week of May 18th, HBS to post profile of admitted class (Are you listening Mr. Bolton??, see our post directly below this one for what we need in terms of stats) in August, and we hope it includes a break out by date when they graduated  college, as in previous profile, to clear  the air as to just how many geezers are in the class, versus generalities at Stanford.  HBS also  to start interviewing 2+2ers around July 15th (app due July 1)–YIKES, when will HRH get time to eat her July 4th Hot Dog???

Dee-dee’s post below.

http://www.hbs.edu/mba/admissions/blog.html#post-2009-05-13

Here’s what you can expect in the next few weeks:

• Today, Wednesday, May 13 - round 3 notification. Mostly likely around noon. Decisions may include a few offers to join the waitlist.
• May 13-20 - some admits from the waitlist, some releases from the waitlist, and some invitations to remain on the waitlist for another month or so.
• Week of May 18 - essay questions and application deadline dates for the Class of 2012 application will be posted on the MBA website and also here on the “notes from the Director” page. Also, some information about what goes on at HBS when the students are gone in the summer (i.e., the campus information session schedule).
• Mid June - tentative travel schedule for MBA Information Sessions.
• Early August - a profile of the Class of 2011.

I’m sure there will be other updates, but these are the ones I am thinking of right now.

Applications for the 2+2 Program are due on July 1, 2009 and invitations to interview will be sent around July 15. Updates will be posted both here and on the website.

Business Week Magazine interviewed Stanford GBS adcom Derrick Bolton about the usual blah, blah, blah. No real news, as is par for the course for these interviews (cant they get a real journo to ask some non-softball questions, ok, ok). Link is above, we post entire interview below the line below, but first we engage in some deconstruction of some of the more pontificating obscurantims:

How do the application numbers look from last year to this year?
All the hype about applications being up dramatically has been just that: hype. In reality, I think the numbers are going to be very similar to trends we’ve seen in the last two years.

HUH, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN, THE TREND IN LAST TWO YEARS WAS UP, DO YOU MEAN THAT TREND IS CONT., AND APPS WERE UP IN TOTO 10-15 PERCENT, OR DO YOU MEAN, CONTRA THE HYPE, TOTAL APPS WERE FLAT.  THERE IS A GOOD REALLY EASY WAY TO ANSWER THIS Q. –HOW ABOUT A NUMBER, DUDE. THIS IS NOT A STATE SECRET, IT IS KNOWN, AND IT WILL BE PUBLIC SOON ANYWAY. 

How much work experience do you look for in a candidate?
Really, there’s no set period that we look for in all candidates. We have a great group of students who will join us directly from university and candidates who join us with 20 years of experience or more,

OH BOY, THEY ARE BRINGING OUT THAT GEEZER AGAIN, I THINK THEY ACCEPTED ONE GEEZER 30 YEARS AGO, AND THEN PUT HIM IN DEEP-FREEZER AND THEY DEFROST HIM FOR EACH INTERVIEW.  SURE,SURE, SURE, YOU WILL TAKE FOLKS W. 20 YRS OF EXPERIENCE AND AHEM, ‘A GROUP’ OF KIDS DIRECTLY FR. COLLEGE, BUT DUDE, HOW ABOUT SOME GROSS STATS, LIKE HRH PUBLISHES ON HER BLOG ABOUT THE WHOLE CLASS, SO WE CAN GIVE SOME TEXTURE TO THIS FROTH.

 and then everything in between.

GREAT, THAT IS ALSO HELPFUL.

 It’s a personal decision on when to apply.

NOOOOOOOOO! REALLY, I THOUGHT IT WAS LIKE REGISTERING FOR THE DRAFT, OR MEDICARE PART B, LIKE COME AGE 18 OR 65, YOU GOTTA DO IT, THANKS FOR THE INFO.

As a school, we see a lot of people waiting because they think business schools want them to wait. [They] think they won’t be competitive until they have four or five years of work experience. And that’s not true. We have expended a lot of effort in the last few years trying to dispel that myth.

WELL, MY AMIGO, ONE REALLY, REALLY GOOD WAY TO DISPEL THAT MYTH IS TO PUBLISH THE SAME CHART THAT OL’ HBS PUBLISHED ABOUT HOW MANY KIDS EXACTLY GRADUATED IN YEARS X YZ ETC.

 When we look at successful alumni who come back to the school and talk with us about their careers and the impact that this place had on them, you see them all across the spectrum in terms of work experience.

??????????? WTF?????????  SUCCESSFUL ALUMS, FOR THE MOST PART, WENT TO SCHOOL SORTA 10 YEARS AGO, WHEN IN FACT MOST DID HAVE 4-5 YEARS OF EXPERIENCE.  

As Stanford moves ahead, what is the biggest challenge it faces?
There’s a challenge for MBA programs in general, which is ensuring that the pool of candidates is selecting an MBA for the right reasons. I think [we] schools have done ourselves a real disservice on this front. If you look at students who are applying to medical school or law school, they’re applying for the education.

WHA??????????? NOT SURE I GET THIS.

 There’s certainly a credential element there, but when you talk to those students and look at the publications from those schools, they’re about the education.

WELL, TALKING TO STUDENTS AND LOOKING AT OFFICIAL PUBS, ARE TWO WAY DIFF. THINGS. MOST LAW AND MED SCHOOL KIDS I TALK TO ARE SORTA JUST AS CAREERIST AS MOST B SCHOOL KIDS.  ANYONE EVER NOTICED HOW MANY DOCS ARE NOW BECOMING DERM SPECIALISTS????? [I AM NOT JOKING, THIS IS WELL KNOWN FACT IN MEDICAL AND GEN.INFO CIRCLES]  IS IT BECAUSE OF WORLD PLAUGE OF ACNE? NO, IT IS BECAUSE YOU CAN MAKE LOTSA $$$ GIVING OUR SCRIP STRENGTH CLEARISEL AND BOTOX POKES –AGREE THOSE KIDS ARE NOT ON COVER OF HMS BROCHURES.  THIS PATCH OF CONVO IS JUST BOLTON’S FIXATION ON VICTMOLOGY–IN THIS CASE, HIS IMAGINED OWN, HE LIKES TO POSITION B SCHOOLS AS VICTIMS OF THEIR OWN MANGLED MARKETING, AND IN NEED OF SAVIOR, CALLING MR ????????

 Business schools have in the last couple of decades gone astray and really put too much emphasis on the post-school benefits and not enough on what transpires while you’re there.

THIS IS ABOUT THE TIME IN THE SERMON I START LOOKING AROUND THE PEWS  FOR HOT CHICKS, OK, YOU GOT ME, I BEEN DOING THAT SINCE ENTERING, BUT YOU GET MY POINT.

I think our industry overall has made a really big mistake of overemphasizing those ancillary benefits. Applicants have interpreted that as being the reason you go to school.

OH NO, THE REAL REASON YOU SPEND 100K IN TUITION AND ALSO STOP EARNING FOR TWO YEARS IS……………..THE REALITY IS, IMHO, B SCHOOL GRADS HAVE HAD A MORE POSITIVE IMPACT ON DO-GOODER STUFF AND POSITIVE IMPACT THAN LAWYERS, OR IT SURE IS CLOSE.  DOCS ARE PROB. LESS GUILTY OF RECENT SCANDALS, BUT THAT SEEEMS ONLY B.C. THEY HAVE LESS OPTTY.  THEY SURE GET THEIR HANDS DIRTY IN EVERY AREA THEY TOUCH FR. LOBBYING, COZY CONTACTS W. PHARMA, ETC. ETC.

That’s probably the thing I worry about the most at Stanford. How do I make sure that we’re picking people who and want to take this [education] and make themselves better people, managers, and leaders, in support of our society?

WELL, OK, STANFORD APPLICANTS, IF YOU DID NOT KNOW WHAT MATTERS TO YOU, KNOW YOU DO.

I really think we’ve got to do some soul searching, as business schools, about the messages we’ve been sending out.

NO MR. BOLTON, YOU GOTTA DO SOME SOUL SEARCHING ABOUT THE INCOMPLETE DATA YOU SEND OUT, SEE NOTES IN PAST THREE POSTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How do you combat the perception of business schools as the means to a high-paying career?
There are a lot of little things we can do. At Stanford, we recognized a while back that there are great people who should be pursuing business school who frankly would have pursued an MBA a generation ago. They’re not looking at it now because of the stigma, because of the perception of what an MBA is.

WTF?????

 We need to do a better job of conveying the real benefits of this education.

We can start by talking more to people while they’re in college.

OH, SO THE YOUTH JIHAD IS NOT TO GET YOUNGER, CUTER, LESS MATURE (AND MORE FUN STUDENTS) WHO CAN BE HIRED CHEAPER, IT IS TO GET YOUR WORLD SAVING MISSION STATMENT OUT THERE TO THE UNDERGRADS BEFORE THEY BECOME ANTI-B SCHOOL BASED ON INCORRECT MARKETING BEING PUT OUT BY B SCHOOLS THEMSELVES. THIS GUY IS ACTUALLY A GENIUS AT ADCCOMERY, REALLY, YOU GOTTA HAND IT TO HIM.

 We’ve done a lot more outreach on college campuses to influence the students there before they hit major inflection points in their careers when they jump off to law school or policy school instead of looking at business school. We decided to take the GRE [scores, in addition to GMAT scores.] Let’s say we’re able to encourage students for whom the GMAT might have been a barrier, and who are looking at nonbusiness programs, to consider an MBA. I think that will make a difference.

ISNT THIS THE PART WHERE INTERVIEWER IS SUPPOSED TO CUT IN AND SAY, “WELL JEEPERS IF THAT IS TRUE, HOW COME HBS IS EATING YOUR LUNCH W. 2+2 AND WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO  DO ABOUT IT??????”

 Honestly,

[TRANSLATION, BEND OVER, HERE IT COMES AGAIN]

 I think you’ll see a lot of schools coming out of the economic malaise that we’re in now by really looking inward and trying to assess whether they’ve put an emphasis on the broader role that businesses play.

HMMMMM, ACTUALLY, A LOT OF SCHOOLS WILL BE LOOKING OUTWARD, AND SEEING IF ANY STUDENTS ARE STILL APPLYING, HONESTLY.

 I think that’s something that Stanford has done for a long time. It will help Stanford when other schools start to realize and convey that businesses are not just economic institutions but also social institutions that have responsibilities that extend beyond the income statement and balance sheet.

SO, THAT IS GOING TO HELP STANFORD?????  AND HE IS ACCUSSING OTHER SCHOOLS OF NOT DOING THAT NOW, WHILE STANFORD, ALL LONELY AND UNSUPPORTED, FIGHTS ON ALONE IN THE DARK AND MATERIALISTIC WORLD. I REALIZE NO ONE IS SUPPOSED TO ACTUALLY READ THIS FAR, LET ALONE, ACTUALLY COMMENT ON WHAT IS JUST PURE HOT AIR AND BALONEY, BUT STILL, THIS IS PRETTY AMAZING, I MEAN, IF YOU WANT TO BE SO CRUEL AS TO POINT OUT WHAT IT ACTUALLY SAYS, IN LIKE ENGLISH. 

The kind of scrutiny that organizations are going to put business schools under in the next months and years is going to have a really positive effect.

YEAH, WE WILL ALL BE SAVED. BUT IT WILL TAKE WORK AND PRAYER.  AND I NOW INVITE ALL MY PARISHONERS FOR TEA AND CAKES, EXCEPT YOU, MR. GURU, WHO WILL SPEND THE NEXT HOUR IN THE WOODSHED FOR EVIL THOUGHTS AND LACK OF CHARITAS. 

FOR FULL INTERVIEW SEE BELOW (more…)

drum roll, please, for HBS Waitlisters. Just in case you had forgotten about them. Looks like Eileen has come out of her burrow, saw her shadow, and guess what, only 13 days left til April 2nd.

Hello Everyone:

It’s Eileen Chang from the MBA Admissions Board at HBS. Though it’s not yet time for our usual monthly update, we wanted to get in touch because we anticipate movement on the waitlist on notification day for round 2, which is coming up on April 2.

Please complete this poll  to confirm your interest in our MBA program. If your plans have changed since our last communication and you no longer wish to remain on the waitlist, you may indicate so on the poll.

At this point, we are not exactly certain about how many round 1 waitlist candidates we will be admitting on April 2 - this has yet to be determined, but completion of this poll is an important step in order for us to make these decisions.

Thank you for your cooperation, and we will be in touch again at the beginning of April with an update.

Sincerely,

Eileen Chang
MBA Admissions
Harvard Business School
Soldiers Field Road
Dillon House
Boston, MA 02163

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If you do not want to receive these communications, tuff, you applied, you’ll be getting them.

HBS STARTS TAKING GRE’S FOR 2+2 PROGRAM. WILL REGULAR APPLICATIONS FOLLOW?

BYE-BYE FOR THE GMATS???? JUST TO PROJECT.  ALTHO ONE ADVANTAGE OF GMATS IS THERE ARE MORE TESTING SITES………AND EASIER TO SCHEDULE, ETC. SO I DONT EXPECT ANY COLLAPSE OF GMATS SOON, BUT I DO EXPECT THE PRICE TO GO DOWN

DUH, IT IS CALLED COMPETITION.  OF COURSE, I COULD BE DREAMING AND NAIVE, AND EFFECT WILLBE THAT GRE PRICE WILL GO UP.

ANYWAY, AS FAR AS WE KNOW, THIS IS JUST MORE OF HBS BECOMING BESOTTED W. ITS OWN 2+2 PROGRAM. AND MAKING IT EASIER, AS ONE BRILLIANT COMMENTATOR NOTED, TO STEAL THE BABIES FROM THE CANDY.   YES, YOUR MAJESTY, IT IS EASY TO FALL IN LOVE W. 21 YEAR OLDS WHO ARE FULL OF PROMISE ………………..

News about 2+2 Program

http://www.hbs.edu/mba/admissions/blog.html#post-2009-01-12

Date:	January 12, 2009

I’m happy to announce that the essay questions for this year’s 2+2 applicants are up on the website.

This year we will be accepting results from both the GMAT and GRE for 2+2 applicants. More detailed information about this will be on the website soon.

If you’re a current college underclassman, please explore the 2+2 Program and consider whether it may be a good idea for you. All of us who read applications and interviewed candidates last summer believe that this was an eye-opening experience for us - the energy and talent had us all truly impressed. Last year’s admits will be gathering here on campus in late June . . . we’ll be doing some interviews and podcasts that I think you’ll find interesting.

Back to the Round 2 applications . . . .[AMAZING THAT THEY GOT THIS OUT IN THE WEEK HRH LEOPOLD HERSELF DESCRIBED AS THE BUSIEST OF THE YEAR…………..OH, LOVE CONQUERS ALL……….JUST HAD TO GET THIS VALENTINE OUT THE YOUNGINS.]

Dee

DEE-DEE SPILLS THE BEANS AT INTERNAL  ADMISSIONS SEMINAR FOR HBS KIDS–GOD ONLY KNOWS WHY ANYONE SHOWED UP, BUT HUNDREDS DID (HOW COME NO INVITE FOR ME ???????). NOTHING GROUND BREAKING HERE ALTHO SOME GREAT, GREAT TIDBITS. BE SURE YOU KEEP READING………………..PINK FOLDERS, THAT IS A NEW ONE ON MOI. IS ROUND TWO BLUE?

Sandy –  Dee [Deirdre Leopold adcom director]  organized an event for HBS students early this week ­ it was called “What you want to know about HBS Admissions but couldn’t ask…”  A classroom designed to sit 90 and easily 250 people..it was crazy.
She said nothing ground breaking.  Just more about process.  Day the apps start to get reviewed they print all the apps (someone does this all night)…and apps get put into pink folders (round 1)…

She said they are getting younger and the applicants from the 2+2 program are fantastic

Faculty believes that 3-4 years experience is plenty

International / Domestic mix is likely to remain the same

Still looking for leaders, definitely want more women and people from industry.  You aren’t competing against candidates from your own industry / geography / race, etc…they have a general idea of the way they want to class to look like but don’t consciously review the apps in that way…you are competing against everyone else, which was insightful

Alums are not likely to participate deeply in interviewing process going fwd; if alums have the time to do 5 interviews then they are probably the alums that HBS doesn’t want interviewing anyway!

[SOMETIMES YOU GOTTA LOVE THIS GAL– SK]

“Still looking for leaders who care as much about their learning as the learning of their classmates; have to show intellectual curiosity and demonstrate the potential for leadership.  HBS trains leaders, it doesn’t create them”

  In terms of numbers she said only 10% of class spots are available for round 3…go getters apply in round 1, a very competitive pool, but not too many applications whereas round 2 has a “normal distribution” of applications (crappy, ok, great) and that’s where they admit the majority of the class…she said they will look to interview 1800 (not a hard number, but about that) and she wants the candidate to have a 50/50 shot at getting in after the interview.  Nothing about recommenders and legacies (although i wanted to ask but she didnt call on me - way too many people - at least 250 - 300 in a 90 person classroom).  Kids asked about international vs domestic student balance (why not more international?) and she said that its a US school and she even has alums telling her to admit more white males so it is very difficult to please everyone so the balance will likely not change.  Impact of downturn will bring about more applications but she doesnt expect the review process to change at all.  Most students who showed up were 1st years. 

She also said that she spends as much or more time on Businessweek.com more than anyone…

HBS AND AGE JIHAD.

FROM HER MAJESTY’S BLOG. FIRST OFF, THANK YOU, YOUR MAJESTY, NOTHING LIKE GIVING THE PEOPLE THE FACTS AND LETTING THEM DRAW THEIR OWN CONCLUSIONS. WE AWAIT SIMILAR CHARTS FOR GPA AND GMAT SCORES. LIKE WHAT IS SO HARD ABOUT THAT? KELLOGG ACTUALLY USED TO DO SOMETHING SIMILAR FOR GMATS, AND IT WAS VERY HELPFUL. I KNOW WHAT YOU’RE SAYING, “HEY, PUTZ, I GAVE YOU THIS, AND ALL YOU CAN DO IS ASK FOR MORE?” WELL, THAT IS  WHAT TRANSPARENCY DOES TO PEOPLE. MAKES ‘EM WANT MORE, LIKE FREEDOM. BUT P.S. THANKS AGAIN. I APPRECIATE IT, KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK.

OK, WHAT WE GOT HERE IS 102 ACCEPTS FR. CLASS OF 2002 + PRIOR, AND MY GUESS IS, IF YOU TAKE OUT WEST POINT AND USNA AND USAFA  SERVICE ACADEMY GUYS (TYPICALLY 40 OR SO) AND OTHER MILITARY TYPES (ANOTHER 15-20) YOU COULD HAVE BASICALLY ~50 ACCEPTS WHO ARE 28+ [SERVICE ACADEMY GUYS COMMIT TO FIVE YEARS, IN THEORY IF YOU GRAD IN 2003, YOU WOULD DISCHARGE IN 2008 AND COULD HAVE APPLIED FOR SEPT 2008 INTAKE, SOMEONE IN MILITARY CHECK ME ON THIS]. THAT IS A PRETTY SLIM NUMBER. ONCE YOU GET TO 29, 30 AND OVER……………..MAN, YOU ARE TALKING LIKE 50 PEOPLE, SOME 20 OR SO OF WHOM COULD BE  MEDICAL DOCS OR PH.D’S. THE NUMBER OF NON-MILITARY, NON-PHD, NON-DOCS IS REALLLLLLLLLLLLY SMALL. BUT ALL THAT SAID, I GUESS IT DOES HAPPEN. MY GUESS IS, INTERNATIONALS, FOREIGN MILITARY W. REQ. SERVICE [ISRAEL, SINGAPORE, TAIWAN, SWITZERLAND, ETC. ] AND YES, MAYBE 4 INDIAN I.T. GUYS, SPREAD OUT ALL OVER GOD’S GREEN EARTH.

Here’s a breakdown of when the Class of 2010 graduated from college/university by class year. Remember, all directly admitted college seniors have the option to postpone matriculation in order to gain work experience.

HBS AGE JIHAD: PERCENT OF HBS CLASS WITH 3 YEARS OR LESS WORK EXPERIENCE ENTERING IN  

2005–26,

IN 2008 –40 –GEE, GUESS WHAT DEMOGRAPHIC  THAT INCREASED 14 PERCENT OF BABIES CAME FROM?????

AGE JIHAD –OH NO, CLASS NOT GETTING YOUGER. BELOW, A POWERPOINT SLIDE FROM AN HBS PRESENTATION TO RECRUITERS, WHICH [CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG] INDICATES THAT FOR THE CLASS OF 2007 (ENTERED IN 2005), THE PERCENT OF GRADS WHO HAD UP TO THREE YEARS OF FULL TIME WORK EXPERIENCE BEFORE ACCEPTING POST-MBA JOB WAS

26–YET HER MAJESTIES POST –GAG, REPRINTED BELOW AGAIN, INDICATES THAT FOR THE CLASS OF 2010 [THE KIDS ENTERING THIS SEPT] THAT NUMBER IS ~40 PERCENT.

Professional Experience: % accepting new jobs and median base salary

Class of	2007
One year or less	2.4% $115,000
More than one year, up to three years	23.6% $115,000
More than three years, up to five years	55.1% $115,000
More than five years	18.9% $110,000

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This is probably an opportune time to address another frequently asked question: “Is Harvard Business School looking for a younger class?”

Here’s how the incoming class looks: we have 912 people expected to matriculate in September. 371 of these are what we call “within three years of college graduation” which means that they have graduated in 2008, 2007, 2006 and 2005. We keep track this way, not by age. About a dozen are coming right from undergraduate school - and another dozen were admitted directly from college but elected to delay matriculation in order to get some - or additional - full-time work experience. Many of the directly admitted college seniors have worked full-time already - all have had significant roles on campus or entrepreneurial experience. All directly admitted seniors are welcome to postpone their date of matriculation.

Back to the class profile and the original question. Do the numbers and I think you’ll find that 541 members of the class of 2010 have been out of college for more than 3 years. That’s more than the total enrollment in many business schools.

Are these numbers “quotas” or “targets”? No. We’ll still do our evaluation and selection the old-fashioned way: one folder at a time. Lots of attention to the written application and mandatory interviews by invitation only. We ask the same questions about every candidate we consider: Is this person a leader? Does he/she give evidence of ability to engage enthusiastically in serious intellectual and analytical work? Will this person invest as much in the educational experience of others as in his/her own?

So the answer would be that we think you can come to Harvard Business School and thrive earlier in your career than you might have heard via the grapevine. That doesn’t mean that those with more experience should be discouraged: apply when it’s optimal for you. When you can look at the questions we pose and feel eager to respond, that’s a good indication of readiness.

HBS AND AGE: HER MAJESTY, ER, COUGHS UP NOT MUCH REAL DATA.

Below, is Dee-Dee’s latest fog, er blog, on the very touchy issue of HBS and age, a topic we have been following like hawks for past coupla years but ESPECIALLY  since fall when we first became aware of the new super-secret HBS AGE JIHAD, which was started by HBS Admin w.the idea of getting younger kids [e.g. 26 or less in many cases, esp. in areas of MC and IB/PE, exceptions for military, PH.D’s and rare oddballs] w. the idea that 1. younger kids are cuter, dumber, more easily trained, have longer earning curves, are nicer to look at, more easily cowed, etc. etc [REAL REASON], 2. recruiters want younger kids [dunno about that, but sure, could be for same reasons as 1. 3. to allow females to have career start, MBA and family planning before say 30 [older females now blocked by this Age Jihad thank you for CHOICE OPTION,but HBS continues to mention benefit to females, AMAZINGLY along w. all the other fog]. Her figures actually CONFIRM the age Jihad, by noting just how many kids are ~25and under, 40 percent  OF THE CLASS,   and as usual she leaves out the KEY stats, which is WHAT IS THE ACCEPT RATE FOR KIDS IN THE NEW DEAD ZONE, 27/28+. Yes, 541 kids in the class have been out of college more than 4 years, but ~100 of them are military, PHDs, MDs and oddballs. So like 441 real kids are left in age bracket 25+ and my guess is, the BULK of those kids are 25 and 26, and maybe 27–w. as noted the new DEAD ZONE being  28. With 27 being the gray zone, and 26 being the safe area, where you do not get age punished or benefited. If you are 1-3 years out, you def get a premium. What am I smoking??? How do I know this. We compiled more robust stats on my blog about age and HBS admits, see http://hbsguru.com/blog/2008/03/where we did a sample of about 60 random admits, and they fell out  as follows, for kids in class years 08, 07, 06, 05 we predicted 36 percent, and now DEE has said actual number is 40percent, so Age Jihad is worse on the super low end (and folks w. error of 4 percent, we are pretty darn happy w. out stats], but more importantly, for the next two class years, e.g. 04, 03, [age 25-27] we show class of  2003 19%, and class of 2004 being 31%–e.g. 50 percent of the class, there is ONLY 10 percent left after behind class of 2003, and if you keeping score at home, and applying next year, THAT MEANS IF YOU ARE CLASS OF 2003 [FOR NEXT YEAR] OR EARLIER, THAT COHORT WILL BE TEN PERCENT OF THE CLASS, e.g. 90-100 kids (higher number is accepted, not enrolled) AND MY GUESS IS, ABOUT 30 PERCENT OF APPLICANT POOL, if not more. To put that in perspective, say there will be 10k apps,  3300 of those will be geezers, of whom 100 will get in, for a geezer accept rate of 3 percent, vs. general rate of 10-12 percent (next year w. 10k apps). Even if I am wrong in speculation that geezers are 30 percent of app. pool (and that is a guess) we have firm stats w. great support in our own sample and Majesty’s partial stats, that geezer cohort is 90-100. FOLKS THAT IS THE AGE JIHAD. Now how else do I know about age Jihad. BECAUSE HER MAJ AND OTHER ADCOMS HAVE AS MUCH SAID SO. Many victims of age jihad are well-connected bankers etc. and their patrons often have contacts in adcom who they can query when pissed, and many of the adcoms when pressed how come 28 year old ace banker or consultant or pe guy did not get in, HAVE ANSWERED, QUITE BLATANTLY, AGE JIHAD.   Sure that is an easy way to get  hothead bigshot distracted, but I believe it is true, some of the convos were actually honest, as I hear them 2nd hand, and you keep hearing it. Also, as Age Jihad issue has become more widely spread, kids are pressing adcoms in face-to-face forums etc. about this issue, and like only about 10 percent of Adcoms can lie w. a totally straight face (it takes lotsa practice). The rest of the adcoms get this grin on their face, and thru clenched teeth, sorta fudge.  Also, in official feedback to WLers, those elite WLers who get feedback,  adcoms are dithering over reapp issue and age, and wishing the call was over (happened MANY TIMES).  So there you have it, Below is Her Maj fog, er blog, and it actually CONFIRMS THE AGE JIHAD, notwithstanding its not very serious attempt to rebut it.  READ HER FOG, ER BLOG HOW MANY HALF-TRUTHS, LOGICAL FALLACIES, FIBS,AND CORPORATE TEETH-CLENCHES CAN YOU FIND IN THE BELOW

DEE-DEE’S BLOG ON AGE JIHAD

WHAT IT REALLY MEANS

This is probably an opportune time to address another frequently asked question: “Is Harvard Business School looking for a younger class?” [HELL YES!!!!!!!, WHAT A QUESTION, STRONG EVIDENCE OF A GUILTY MIND, WHERE DID THAT QUESTION COME FROM ???  ]Here’s how the incoming class looks: we have 912 people expected to matriculate in September. 371 of these are what we call “within three years of college graduation” which means that they have graduated in 2008, 2007, 2006 and 2005. We keep track this way, not by age. About a dozen are coming right from undergraduate school - and another dozen were admitted directly from college but elected to delay matriculation in order to get some - or additional - full-time work experience. Many of the directly admitted college seniors have worked full-time already - all have had significant roles on campus or entrepreneurial experience. All directly admitted seniors are welcome to postpone their date of matriculation.Back to the class profile and the original question. Do the numbers and I think you’ll find that 541 members of the class of 2010 have been out of college for more than 3 years. That’s more than the total enrollment in many business schools. [YEAH, AND WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO W. ANYTHING???]Are these numbers “quotas” or “targets”? [YES, GUILTY MIND AGAIN, HOW COME SHE IS ANSWERING THESE QUESTIONS IN THE FIRST PLACE,IF THERE IS NOTHING THERE, WHERE DID THEY COME FROM]  No. We’ll still do our evaluation and selection the old-fashioned way: OH BOY, CATCH PHRASE FROM OLD TV COMMERCIALS–CAUTION]  one folder at a time. [I GIGGLE] Lots of attention to the written application and mandatory interviews by invitation only. We ask the same questions about every candidate we consider: Is this person a leader? Does he/she give evidence of ability to engage enthusiastically in serious intellectual and analytical work? Will this person invest as much in the educational experience of others as in his/her own? So the answer would be that we think you can come to Harvard Business School and thrive earlier in your career than you might have heard via the grapevine. [NO, THE GRAPEVINE, AT LEAST THE ONE RUN BYME, IN FACT SAYS THE OPPOSITE, TODDLERS WELCOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!] That doesn’t mean that those with more experience should be discouraged:[HAHA METHINKS THE LADY DOTH PROTEST TOO MUCH] apply when it’s optimal for you. When you can look at the questions we pose and feel eager to respond, that’s a good indication of readiness. YES, READINESS TO GET DINGED.

HRH LEOPOLD, the HBS adcom dean,  IS BLOGGING AGAIN: THIS FROM HER MAJESTY’S LATEST ENTRY:

Here’s some more advice. As you explore websites, chatrooms, books and information sessions held by MBA consulting services, be mindful of claims of “inside information” from former members of admissions boards. I’ve been on the HBS Board for a (very!) long time and I can’t begin to tell you how much has changed . Applicants are certainly smart to explore the admissions processes at different schools but, speaking for HBS, be careful about very specific advice that may not reflect current practices. This includes application advice from our own loyal and well-meaning alumni/ae!

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Yes, indeedee!!! I have no idea what precipitated her  side trip into consultant town, but let the record show that yours truly, is 1. NOT a former adcom member; 1A. Never claimed to be;  2. Never pretended to have inside information fr. adcoms; 4. Agrees with her that a good deal of advice from alums is off the mark (altho some alums do get it).

For the record: my knowledge of HBS process is based on over  10 years of helping 1000’s [not a figure of speech, I have talked to over 1000 -2000 applicants in various ways, including full application help [a very high number right there], interview prep [also a high number], post-mortems, ding reports, free advice on the phone, and conversations w. current students, alums,  leakers, gossips, nutcases,and camp followers –some of whom have useful tidbits of info which are noted and appraised. I also have useful statistics based on my own files,  of successful and dinged apps,  and spend a good deal of time following publically available info. The proof is in the pudding, I called the 80 percent Round 1 interview invites vs. 50 percent being reported by HBS itself, AND I WAS CORRECT. I called the Youth Jihad, and provided powerful data support. I make ’shoot from the hip’ predictions to kids on this board and over the phone about their chances at HBS, and MY RECORD IS PRETTY DARN GOOD.   Beyond that, it aint exactly rocket science to begin with, and I am really good at this naturally.

I actually feel for Dee Dee on this one, she is running a very professional organization of smart and hard working staff members who take their jobs seriously and  take great pride in being associated with a world class institution. But as they say at the clerical union over there at Harvard, “You cannot eat prestige” [well, for too long anyway]. HBS itself, and every other b school, has to make a decison about how many resources to put into admissions versus faculty hiring, new dorms, etc., etc. and admissions usually is not a large priority, esp. the nuts and bolts of staffing an adcom. That is why Stanford and Wharton do it on the ‘cheap’ so to speak, using students (at Wharton, who are paid some nominal amount) and alums [who do almost all interviewing at S] while for the most part HBS has a large, fully professional staff, who read ALL the files and do 90 percent of the interviewing. But it is impossible to maintain a staff like that, given salaries and limited room at the top, and normal geo movements of young-ish and successful people, many w. mbas, sooooooooooo, you do get a bunch of staff members, esp. staff members fr. years ago, thinking that becoming a admissions consultant and playing off the old connection, is an easy new career. Nothing is going to change that, and it is WAY worse at other schools. As noted, Wharton should think about having Admissions Consulting as part of its regular MBA course offerings. ;-) 

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below are excerpts from Dee Dee’s blog entry about HBS round 1 interview invites, and our annotations, and amplifcations. Her full blog entry is after the dotted line.  

–We will be interviewing from November 5 up until notification day, January 16 (and beyond if we need to).I think we will begin sending interview invitations during the week of October 22.

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this is the normal prior gap between end of applications and first invites: about 20 days. That is what the gap sorta was in year’s prior. The invites pulse out in sort of a bell curve, OVER THE NEXT 30-40 DAYS, so if you have not received an invite by Decemeber 1, your chances of getting an invite are less than 5 percent.if you are totally parnoid, you can plot your odds, by using stock image on left, and subtracting 3.2 percent  every  day, altho obviously if you dont hear fr. Oct 22-29 you have not lost 21percent, since invites get thicker, cresting around November 8-14 is my guess, it is not a symmetrical  bell curve, it falls off  faster after Nov 8-10,  than it rises. Sorry for any stats boo-boos but hope you get the idea.

We will be interviewing from November 5 up until notification day, January 16 (and beyond if we need to).

This is true, but needs a footnote. They do interview and send out interview invites outside the 90-95 percent window of Oct20-Nov 23rd–but dont count on that being you. If you have not gotten an interview invite by Thanksgiving, things are looking real grim.  Exceptions: you get on WL on decision day, and get interviewed later (that is maybe, duh, ~10 kids a year out of class of 1000, maybe less) or your letter on decision day is an interview invite (sell that on E-bay dude, it is very rare).

There is absolutely no discernible pattern to how/when interview invitations are issued.

hmmmmm, this is mostly true, BUT for interview invites for HUB cities–this year first round that means – London, Paris, Mumbai, Delhi, San Francisco, Chicago, Los Angeles, Dallas, Houston and possibly Austin and Seattle – do in fact go out in pulses and patterns, and if you live in SF and you find out that SF hub interview is going to be e.g. on November 16th, well, duh, a lot of SF invites will go going out 6-10 days prior to that, and if you miss that window, it aint good, altho you are still alive. You can get a later invite on campus,  or an alum interview, etc. but NOT GOOD. 

 to repeat, there will always be a number of interview invitations issued up to and including January 16.

to repeat, there will always be a number of six-leaf clovers, flying pigs,and POWER BALL lottery winners. (more…)