PHEW, TWO CHICKS YAKKIN’ ABOUT HBS –ONE OF WHOM IS HRH DEE DEE LEOPOLD (THE HEAD CHEESE) , WHO SAYS THEY ARE LOOKING FOR A SENSE OF HUMOR, AMID MUCH OTHER USELESS ADVICE, AND THE OTHER IS ANDREA KIMMEL, ONE OF THE HARDER-NOSED INTERVIEWERS THIS ROUND, ALTHO SHE IS GIGGLES AND FUN, FUN FUN IN THIS FORMAT.

WORTH SLOGGING THRU JUST TO GET THE 8 MINUTE MARK, WHERE AK ASKS HRH LEOPOLD ABOUT HBS TAKING YOUNGER AND YOUNGER KIDS, AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY HEAR LEOPOLD TAKE AN INVOLUNTARY PAUSE AND GULP BEFORE HEADING INTO A STRING OF FIBS. WELL, AT LEAST SHE IS STILL HUMAN. IT TAKES YEARS OF CIA TRAINING TO JUST FIB AND FIB AND FIB AND NOT SHOW ANY VOICE STRESS  WHATEVER.   KIMMEL’S LAST MINUTE MELT-DOWN (WHICH IS MOSTLY INCOMPREHENSIBLE BUT TO THE DEGREE IT SAYS ANYTHING CONTRADICTS WHAT DD SAID AT THE BEGINNING) IS WORTH LISTENING TO FOR ANYONE SHE INTERVIEWED THIS YEAR– IT WILL BE COLD COMFORT, BUT SHE TURNS INTO A RAMBLING, MELT-DOWN BABBLER JUST LIKE YOU DID.  SOMEONE SHOULD TEACH THESE CHICKS HOW TO EDIT THIS STUFF, BUT FOR THE TIME BEING, THIS IS PRICELESS.

http://www.hbs.edu/mba/admissions/podcasts.html#post-2008-12-15

Dec 15, 2008 (3 days ago)

Interview with the MBA Admissions Director

from HBS MBA Program

Andrea Kimmel from MBA Admissions speaks with Dee Leopold, Managing Director of MBA Admissions and Financial Aid, about what the admissions board is looking for in applicants, when to consider business school and more.

Popout

Original audio source

This was a great report from the B school Penn Forums last August, the info is still right on and valuable.

_____________________________

Hey Sandy,

 

Here is my report on the 3^rd “Annual Keys to the MBA Admissions Process Panel” event that took place on August 7.  The event was organized by alums of PennNYC club and sponsored by Kaplan Test Prep.  With panelists of AdCom directors from HBS, Wharton, Stanford, MIT and Kellogg, the evening was well-attended, with about 1,000 applicants gathering in the spacious air-conditioned room at the Grand Hyatt hotel in NYC.

 

Dee Leopold, my absolute favorite, articulated with great eloquence and got to share her tips on Essays in the welcome discussion. 

Dee looked classy and elegant in her fine black suit, lovely pearls, Tank watch by Cartier, black patent leather Ferragamo shoes, and a stylish red bag.  On top of her job and her 6 kids – I am impressed!  When I asked her questions after the event, she looked me straight in the eyes, and answered sincerely – or at least attempted to do so given her role.  She said she did not want to sound “prescriptive,” and yet gave some helpful hints to candidates without her usual “it depends” or “it’s really OK” responses, for which I salute her! 

Dee is awesome and should continue to travel around the world as ambassador for HBS! 

 

Some of

Dee’s “official” tips during the Essay section in the welcome session were: answer the question, don’t be inhibited by the pressure to be unique, execute cleanly/proofread, and link your essays to who you are.  Dee and Derrick Bolton, Stanford MBA Director and former McKey and Goldman IBanker, tended to agree a lot throughout the discussion.  They were especially passionate in their conversation on “leadership”, and the concept of “leadership without authority”, citing qualities like influencing and motivating others, starting things, working magic in small teams, convincing people to effect change, and making things happen, as opposed to a more traditional leadership archetype.  Derrick is a talented diplomat and should continute to enhance Stanford’s relations with HBS. 

 

Dee mentioned that HBS has shifted more resources away from essay reading to interviewing, and interviewed a little under 25% of applicants, substantially more than in the past.  She also mentioned a shift towards younger applicants - this year, HBS admitted close to 40 high-school seniors, thought most them took advantage of the deferral option, and only 12 admitted students actually enrolled this year. 

Dee said people with 10 years of experience should not worry: the class is large enough to accommodate all kinds.  Stanford, on opposite, interviewed about 90% of applicants, conducting 800-1,200 interviews this year, and launched some a Pilot program, in the school’s spirit of innovation. 

 

The event was scheduled with a welcome discussion from 7:00 to 8:30 PM, and a networking information exchange till about 9:30 PM.  The welcome discussion was moderated by a feisty female President of PennNYC, who was not afraid to ask direct questions, such as “what would you recommend if the applicant was your own kid?”  To which Derrick responded “I have to look around the room to see if any of these people ARE my kids” after pausing.  Another funny moment was when

Dee expressed her dislike for the concept of “Know Your Application” as advice to those preparing for interviews.  She called it “ASS BACKWARDS”, arguing that the candidate should know himself and write an honest application, in which case he wouldn’t need to “know” his application.  Derrick, of course, interrupted the discussion to confirm that the Director of Harvard Business School Admissions just used the word “ASS” in front of 1,000 people! 

I spoke with Derrick during the network session, and found him genuine, attentive, and smart.  He also wore a nice suit and smelled nice… The students said you’ll see Derrick a lot if you get admitted, so a good reason to apply to Stanford!  J

 

The event was organized around 5 topics: Academics/GMAT, Experience, Essays, Extra-Curricular, and Interviews.  When asked to share thoughts on Extra-Curricular, Angel Navedo of MIT, a really cool guy I thought, said he wasn’t very busy in high school, but had a 4 page report of high-school activities when he was applying to college.  He naturally advised the applicants against employing this strategy, but pretty much said that MIT doesn’t care if you were that involved, and will not hold it against you, especially if you are in Finance working long hours.  That really inspired my interest in applying to MIT – think I have a chance there!!! J  The MIT desk during the networking session was represented by current students, who were all very friendly and eager to share their enthusiasm for the school, emphasizing that the MBA program is not as technical as one might incorrectly assume based on school’s brand.  MIT should thank Angel and the kids for doing a great job at marketing and re-branding. 

 

I was not AT ALL impressed with Beth Flye from Kellogg, who kept repeating “Know Yourself” no matter what question she was asked – thanks Beth, that is REALLY HELPFUL!   I think she would benefit from

Dee’s advice: ANSWER THE QUESTION!  Judith Hodara, Senior Associate Director of Wharton Admissions, didn’t say anything profound either.  In fact, she really didn’t say much outside of the typical stuff you’d find on the intro page of the schools’ website… Kellogg and Wharton should attend some of these events and make some HR decisions…

 

cheers…

Sandy’s devoted girl-fan in NYC

THIS IS POST FROM  A FRIEND WHO ATTENDED THE HBS ADMISSIONS FORUM IN NEW YORK CITY  RECENTLY

Had the opportunity to attend [HBS ADCOM DIRECTOR DEE LEOPOLD’S]  talk yesterday in NYC.  Here’s something to solidify your Age Jihad theory: 

Dee:  “We encourage you to apply with 2-3 years of experience.  We are becoming a younger class”

Here are some stats for you
- 8,600 applications for class entering in 2008
- 1,800 interviewed
- 12 Seniors out of college are joining HBS this fall
- 25 people work in admissions
- 12 full time, rest are brought on to read applications during the application season

STANFORD NEW YORK PRESENTATION.

The next post is a very thorough recap of Stanford’s New York City presentation, QBed by the main man himself, Derrick Bolton, and a bunch of oh-so-typical alums, e.g. guy who founded a pants company after making $$$ in IB, and just another poor hack who is head of marketing of NBA, etc. etc. This is all in line w. Stanford’s major smoke and mirror mantra: ANYONE CAN APPLY, WE LOVE ODDBALLS, GMAT DOES NOT REALLY COUNT, HEY, IT’S JUST A LOVE FEST OUT HERE AND ANYONE CAN GET IN. ALL YOU NEED TO DO IS BARE YOUR SOUL AND WE WILL LOVE YOU.

Folks, this is not total b.s., it just needs to be given a reality check. The fact is, Stanford alums are impressive and they often do have interests in quirky areas, and do seem, according to numbers cited by Bolton, slightly less likely to wind up in finance than dudes from HBS or Wharton. But that does NOT MEAN THEY WERE THAT WAY WHEN THEY APPLIED.

In fact, if you do the math, the stereotype Stanford successful applicant begins to emerge, and it is quite different than the jive put out on their forums: a successful Stanford applicant is a a highly pedigreed dude or dudette, from top schools and job feeders (widely defined, including NGO’s etc) WITH HIGH GMAT SCORES.  Bolton keeps stressing that gmats do not make a difference, and in this gab fast went so far as to say, that “he can only recall one or two incidents when the decision to admit someone came down to the GMAT score.  He advised candidates to “do their best” and “not worry so much about scoring 50 points higher.”  I giggle. How does he explain that 720, Stanford’s average gmat score (which I believe is in fact higher!!!) is higer than every other school, and in fact, not only getting higher every year (it was 710 a while ago, in statements not audited by Andersen consulting) but I think the diff. between Stan and HBS on gmats is ALSO WIDENING.   

Other things worth noting: his remarks on Question 2 (not fully reported here, but I followed up w. poster):

In response to a question from the audience on “Essay B: What are your aspirations? How will your education at Stanford help you achieve them?” Derrick noted that the question does not specifically ask about “career aspirations” even though one may choose to discuss career aspirations. 

What Bolton said was that every word of this question was carefully considered, and so writer should do the same (thanks, next time you apply to Stanford have your lawyer there w. you, say, what a minute, have dudes like me there with you!). That means to me, that you SHOULD WRITE ABOUT MORE THAN SIMPLY YOUR CAREER ASPIRATIONS. When Stanford posted this question in July of this year, as poster notes (in full post), the question read, “What are your career aspirations?” and consultants who publish Stan questions on their websites, including me, accept.com, etc.  still have it listed that way, since they picked up the early versions, or they did, when I looked yesterday (of course they may change after reading this). At some point Stanford changed the question, THANKS, and did not tell anyone (change people, change orgs change the world, and also change your essay questions) , so if you if you had downloaded an earlier + kind of got it in your head that they were asking for career aspirations, you might easily neglect to discover the dropped word in the new and silent version on MisApplyYourself. FYI, HBS asks for ‘career vision’ and feel free to intrepret that broadly as well.  I like Stanford and Bolton, from afar, but at bottom, you can take the boy out of  the adcom room for an evening at Goldman’s million dollar auditorium, but you cannot take the adcom out of the boy.

Title: Stanford MBA Program Information Session (Downtown)

Date: 10/08/2007 

Time: 07:00 PM to 09:00 PM

Location: Goldman Sachs & Co. 32 Old Slip, Auditorium

New York, NY

10005

 

Overall, this was a great and informative event, and I appreciated the level of professionalism with which it was organized and executed.  I was also impressed with the student alumni who participated in the panel discussion – each one of them was smart, accomplished, well-rounded, but also funny and very nice. 

 

The state-of-the-art Goldman auditorium, equipped with huge projector screens and microphones at every seat, was a perfect venue for Derrick’s impeccable presentation and the several hundred prospective candidates who showed up for the event.  Derrick spent the first hour speaking about the program and its new curriculum, then introduced a panel of several alumni, who shared their experiences at Stanford, and concluded the presentation with a discussion and Q&A on the admissions process.  The session ran well over its scheduled end time of 9 pm and most of the panel alumni stayed around for another hour to mingle with the candidates. 

 

Throughout the presentation, Derrick stressed the close residential community of Stanford and the nice and supportive people - students, faculty and alumni - who genuinely care about each other.  I walked away from the presentation with a feeling that of all business schools, this might be actually true at Stanford. 

 

In the Admissions section, Derrick emphasized that the GMAT is only one of the factors, and that he can only recall one or two incidents when the decision to admit someone came down to the GMAT score.  He advised candidates to “do their best” and “not worry so much about scoring 50 points higher.”  This is obviously inconsistent with the fact that Stanford has the highest average GMAT of over 720 and the lowest admission rate among all business schools.  Derrick mentioned the range of 570-790, adding that there are a lot of people with the higher- than average, as well as lower- than average score.

 

In response to a question from the audience on “Essay B: What are your aspirations? How will your education at Stanford help you achieve them?” Derrick noted that the question does not specifically ask about “career aspirations” even though one may choose to discuss career aspirations.  Please note that Stanford changed the question, as it used to state “career aspirations” on the school’s website earlier this year.

 

The panel included several recent alumni, from ’03 to ’07, who now live and work in

New York.  Given the relatively low finance job distribution of Stanford graduates (Class of 2006: 10% Hedge Funds, 9% Private Equity, 5% Investment Banking), this group, as I would have expected, had an unusually high representation in finance, with firms (pre and post MBA) such as Goldman IB and Goldman Global Special Situations Group (GSSG), McKinsey, Bain, Alliance Bernstein, media and other private equity firms, and hedge funds.  One of the girls worked in high tech prior to MBA and is now doing NBA sports marketing and operations – she was one of the students who introduced Sports Management course to the MBA curriculum several years ago while she was a student.  And one of the guys started a men’s pants design company with his roommate at Stanford.  At one point, he walked around the podium advertising his pants, which retail on his company’s website for $140 - the pants, with color-printed pockets, were actually pretty cool.  All of these guys seemed to have genuinely loved their experiences at Stanford, and all of them had significant international experiences while at school, ranging from internships in China to study trips to Uganda, to fun trips to Brazil and

Spain.

 

Here are some of the other presentation discussion points:  

 

o       Admissions Process

·        Recommendations: 3 recommendations, of which 1 needs to be from the current direct supervisor.  Derrick stressed that it is important to add a 1-2 sentence brief explanation in the “Additional Information” section if unable to provide one from the current direct supervisor.  Derrick also mentioned that the majority of students waive their right to view the recommendation – I personally find it hard to believe – but that it makes no impact on the application.  The waiver question is required by Federal law.

·        Interviews: by invitation only and conducted blind (resume only) by alumni, Derrick stated (repeatedly, as I remember the same number quoted in a different event at which he spoke) that they interviewed “800-1,200” out of approximately 5,000 applicants – which seems to me as a very broad range – of whom about 440 get admitted (10%) and 360 enroll (8%).

·        Loan Forgiveness Programs: for public-service sectors; similar to HBS

o       New Curriculum:

·        general management focus, Management Perspectives and Management Foundations groups of courses, all of which can be tailored to fit personal needs

·        ability to tailor curriculum not only in the 2^nd year, but also in the 1^st year, which is unique among business schools; thus, students who are proficient in statistics will not place out of statistics altogether, but will take a more challenging course in statistics while others will take the intro course

·        classes mentioned include Strategic Leadership, Leadership Perspectives (with access to major leaders) and Global Context of Management; professor Garth Saloner seems to be a star

·        no majors or concentrations

·        intensive seminars on cutting-edge ideas with only 14-16 students per class in the 1^st year and one- and two- week seminars in the fall of the 2^nd year

·        University-wide classes ‘across the street’, including research studies with students from across the University

o       Personalized Education:

·        Derrick emphasized this point with a big slide that connected Your Needs with the GSB Opportunities into Maximized Potential

·        personalized faculty and career advisor assigned to every student

·        accessible faculty advisors and coaches to guide students through their learning experience, with the highest student-to-faculty ratio of 7:1

·        capstone seminar at the end of the 2^nd year  

·        strategic class size of 360 students, alumni network of 25,000

o       Required Global Experience: This can be satisfied in one of several ways:

·        GMIX: 4-week unpaid internship abroad in the summer after the 1^st year (27% of students do this) sponsored by companies abroad

·        Global Study Trips: 2-3 week trips, about 15-20 organized every year

·        Service Learning Trips: more focused trips, typically to

China (Tsinghua) or India (IIM) with an academic component, unique to Stanford

o       Career Services

·        Management Communications Program, with a focus on interviewing skills and public speaking

·        Career Workshops and Career Treks, including lottery interviews for those not selected for interviews by potential employers

·        International career advisors

WHY THEY CALL IT THE SECOND CITY–FORTE FORUM IN CHICAGO.

Dispatch from one of our more snarky and honest  correspondents. $100 reward for photo of the HBS exercise band. Perhaps their next move should be a scrunchy, a la Seinfeld. Who is Jackie Zavitz????

---

Forté Forum last night was an extremely mediocre event - filled with lots of mini Jackie Zavitz-es = icky!! Schools had clearly sent their second-string admissions staff, if any at all. There were only about 20 schools in attendance, but all of the big-hitters were there: HBS, Wharton, MIT, etc. HBS (sorry, no Dee) had a strange exercise band give-away with a tagline about “stretch your potential” or something lame like that. Since when is HBS reduced to supermarket gimmicks? Oh well. I was really discouraged about the kind of girls that were there - humorless, superficial and bitchy business drones. Reminds me why I’m more comfortable around guys!

I guess my point is that I agree with you but I’m surprised that you’ve limited that to HBS. I’m pretty sure all the schools are the same in this respect, ——————————————————————————————————–

At HBS goal statement is almost never a plus, and rarely a dealbreaker, you just need to cruise thru it, sorta like taking chair lift to the real run, you need to do it, and dont fall off or fall and break your leg.  At schools like W, goals is a whole Kabuki theatre production w. many REQUIRED and FORMULAIC parts, and a big part of key essay one, and often stated as THE SCREW UP IN FEEDBACK. So goals at W. is CRUCIAL and you need some convincing jive and roadmap –and if that dont pass the pinch test, you get screwed, esp.  if you are in a congested cohort, e.g. IT, banking, MC etc.

---

One thing that annoyed me was the fact that adcom and the alums kept saying how you should have a clear vision when you apply. And on the other hand, they all graduated and did something totally different. They want you to know what you want to do but keep an open mind.

---

exactly, goal statement is just a ritual, and at HBS it does not count much in positive way (odd, humanitarian, social enterprise goals per se dont get you extra credit beyond REAL THINGS YOU HAVE IN FACT DONE IN SUPPORT OF GOALS) but goals which are unrealistic or do not require an mba, or are muddled, can harm you., GOAL STATEMENT AT HBS CAN BE A DEAL BREAKER BUT NOT A DEAL MAKER.

How? If goals are muddled, or if they do not require an MBA, or if they sound phony and unsupported. But there is another killer castle on the other side of the chess board, if goals do not indicate enuf CHANGE fr. what you are doing, that could sound like you are not opening yourself up to TRANSFORMING experience enuf, so if you plan to stay in same industry, make goals bold, e.g. lead a company into new area of that industry. 

Same event, w. one very important point about goals!!!!

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Hi Sandy,
 
Just thought will briefly share my experience at HBS last Thursday. The event was pretty cool. The classroom was packed with around 80-90 prospective applicants. Few of them looked clueless but on the whole the quality of attendees was good . . . .
Following the hour and a half of case discussion, the adcom showed a video on case method teaching and then invited 5 alums for a Q&A session. Nothing enlightening other than usual “HBS is the best” stuff. One thing that annoyed me was the fact that adcom and the alums kept saying how you should have a clear vision when you apply. And on the other hand, they all graduated and did something totally different. They want you to know what you want to do but keep an open mind.
 

Lively account of HBS dog and pony show, this one at The Mother Church.

Anyone who was there and can add a Dee Dee fashion note, please do write in!!!!

It’s after Labor Day and we want to see the fall line-up.

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—————————————

HBS Admissions Event - September 6, 2007

- Location: Aldrich Hall, 7:00 pm - 9:00 pm, rooms 107 - 109

- registration starts 30 minutes earlier, adcom have lists of names to check off when you register so they will have a record of your attendance

- ~180 prospective applicants divided into 3 groups; 1 group for each classroom, 3 classrooms in total

- 3 case method classes going on simultaneously

(7:00 pm - 8:00 pm)

- Very articulate and friendly adcom staff (HBS alum) introduced Prof. Nabil El-Hage

- no small talk, quickly launched into case method analyzing whether 4 candidates in the case should apply for HBS

- cold calls, be prepared to answer whether each applicant should or should not apply, and why

- a pros and cons list for each applicant is best way to prepare for this case study

- lots of eager beavers in the crowd, if you want to talk, be prepared to shoot up your hand and be aggressive

- scope of discussion was wide ranging and includes: past records of success, married couples, financial means, academic records, international backgrounds etc.

- Prof likes to link conclusions to exhibits at the back of the case study, i.e. a lot of “what does the statistics tell us?”

- lots of buzz words thrown around, i.e. “leadership”, “ambition”, “service”, “out-of-box”, “social value”, “global”, “initiative” etc.

- at the end, Prof likes to put things in a positive light, i.e. “HBS is for everyone who has shown leadership in their own way” or ”all four candidates will do well in HBS”

- basically, case study is a HBS sales pitch

- doubtful that adcom staff would remember who spoke during the case method - no name tags, don’t see them taking any notes

(8:00 pm - 8:15 pm)

- after case method, adcom showed a propaganda video of HBS students engaging in group study and classes

- entire video was very polished and professionally done. good music, good light, good angles

- very dramatic script; energetic and uplifting mood

- was a more effective sales pitch than the case study, crowd was pumped up after video clip

(8:15 pm - 8:50 pm)

- the final session was a Q&A session with 3 HBS alumni and 2 current HBS students

- pretty varied backgrounds before HBS: 1 P&G sales, 2 goldman, 2 entrepreneurs

- none of the 3 HBS alumni are working for blue chips now: 1 has a business, 1 in sales, I forgot about the last one

- all were very articulate, though 2 alumni seemed a little nonchalant.

- talked about their post-HBS experiences which weren’t as uplifting as the previous two segments, i.e., ex-goldman alumni was talking about her husband moving to pittsburg and she needed to find a job there but failed (probably no 6 figure jobs for her there); one alum was talking about how he had to do sales b/c his company is too small etc.

- crowd’s mood deflated a little with a dose of reality (not everyone is a CEO?!)

- questions were mostly about their experiences before, during and after HBS, nothing extremely useful there

- last question was about applications to HBS, everyone regurgitated the standard HBS line: “know yourself”, “there is no such thing as a typical student”, “it is foolish to write what you think HBS wants” etc. nothing surprising there.

(8:50 pm - 9:00 pm)

- final 5-10 minutes consisted of applicants rushing down to alumni and adcom staff to make an impression with congratulations, thanks and small-talk. go fast if you want to chat, or be prepared to wait.