Here is one for you Stanford invite nervous nellies.

SEMI NON-INTERVIEW W. HBS DEAN.  SPOILER ALERT: HE DONT SAY ANYTHING.

HOW BIG WILL HBS CLASS BE THIS YEAR, 900 OR 937 OR WHA???

INTERVIEW W. DEAN JAY (NO)LIGHT IS USUAL CORP NEAR  GIBBERISH.   SEE NOTES, OK, WHO CARES ABOUT THAT, WHO CARES ABOUT ANYTHING EXCEPT HOW MANY APPS FIRST ROUND (SPOILER ALERT–HE DONT SAY!!!!!!!!) AND HOW MANY KIDS THEY TAKING THIS YEAR. I  DUNNO, BUT SK SAYS, HOW YOU GONNA KEEP ‘EM DOWN AT 900 AFTER THEY SEEN 937.  FOR ADCOM, TAKING KIDS AND DOING FAVORS AND NOT MAKING HARD CALLS IS ALWAYS EASIER THAN PISSING OFF BIGFEET AND DINGING KIDS YOU LIKE. SOOOOOOOOOOO, I SAY MORE LIKE 940!

DEE DARLING, YOU LISTENING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://bit.ly/3u7C8E

Issue date: 10/26/09 Section: News

• Page 1 of 6 next >

He’s one of the first people to speak to us on Orientation Day and one of the last we’ll hear from before graduating. Dean Jay Light has an overarching impact on all of our lives here at Harvard Business School, and he is energetic, excited for the future and a refreshingly candid interviewee. (GIGGLES) He sat down with The Harbus and gave his thoughts on class sizes, the economy, Ben Bernanke and what he likes to do in his spare time:

HARBUS: There have been rumors of an eventual expansion of the MBA class size to 1,000 and the potential of adding another section. Can you comment on this and the reasoning behind it?

Jay Light (JL): So facts-so let’s talk some facts. Typically, we target 900 to 910 students. I don’t see the class size increasing to anywhere near 1,000. This year the target was 2% higher, and we have about 937, for a few reasons:
(??????????????? 2PCT OF 910 =18-19, WHAT IS WHIZZARD BOY TALKING ABOUT??? PLUS THE 937 WAS LAST MINUTE SHRINKAGE FROM A REPORTED 943 OR SO? ) MORE LIKE 3 PCT BUT HEY, WE GET THE POINT, OF COURSE BY SAME KINDA FUZZY MATH YOU COULD SAY CLASS OF 1000 IS SORTA ONLY 8PCT MORE THAN THIS YEAR)
First of all, the number of applications we had was up, with great quality applicants.

YES BUT WHAT ABOUT 2002 WHEN YOU HAD 10, OOO APPLICANTS AND FOUND A WAY TO GET THAT DOWN TO 900???

 The first round last year was up 25%. So we said wow, our admit rate is going to be one of the lowest we’ve had; does that make sense?

Secondly, we needed to because of what was going on in the financial markets and the endowment, to cut back on expenditures in the budget. So the question is, how do you reduce the net expenses of the MBA program while still holding fellowships steady? And our solution was to admit a few more students, and that allows you to keep the fellowships. In fact, we increased fellowships by $1 million last year. It was not necessarily an easy thing to do.

It is unlikely right now that we will go to an 11th section, but these are things that we talk about all the time.

TRANSLATION–THIS WILL HAPPEN IN 3-6 YEARS

 We talked about the idea and explicitly decided not to this year. It has to do with making sure we maintain the quality of the classroom experience in all sorts of ways.

HARBUS: Do you think a class size of 95 is too large to allow for a personalized learning experience? Do you think that a size of 70 or 50 would be better?

JL: No. I think there is a flat optimum. I think the case method is better in large class sizes. I’ve taught a lot of class sizes in my life. I think 60 people is too small. You don’t get the diversity of opinion. An individual student may say, “Oh, this is great, I get to talk more.” But from the point of view of the quality of the
discussion, I think it continues to ramp up as the number of students in the class goes up, to the 80-100 range.

DONT YOU JUST LOVE WHEN DUDES LIKE THIS JUST MAKE STUFF UP.  LIKE HAS ANYONE TRIED 60, IS THERE DATA ON THIS. GUY SAYS HE HAS TAUGHT LOTSA CLASSES IN HIS LIFE, HOW MANY W. 60 KIDS AND IN WHAT CONTEXT.  YOU CANNOT COMPARE A 2ND YEAR CLASS W. 60 LAZY HEADS (AS HE ADMITS LATER ON) W. FIRST YEAR CLASS WHERE EVERYONE IS STILL A CRAB IN A BASKET AND WAVING THEIR HANDS WILDLY.

Hi Sandy,

For Wharton, do you suggest an On Campus or an Alumni interview?  Do you think it matters (I know they say it doesn’t).

ALUMS OFTEN 1. ARE INEXPERIENCED, 2.TAKE THE THING TOO SERIOUSLY, 3. DONT HAVE LARGE DATA BASE TO COMAPARE YOU TO,SO THEIR INTERNAL MODEL OF WHAT A GOOD INT/ANSWER IS CAN BE WILDLY EXAGGERATED–THEY EXPECT HOLLYWOOD LEVEL PRODUCTION VALUES IN ANSWERS AND OFTEN YOUR OWN LOOKS (DESPITE NOT LOOKING IN MIRROR RECENTLY). ETC.  SO ALUMS ARE JUST UNPREDICTABLE, AND WHILE FOR THE MOST PART, YOU GET A FAIR SHAKE, AND SOME ALUMS ARE OLD HANDS (SLAP HAPPY AND UNDER-EMPLOYED) IT IS PZZBLE TO GET AN ALUM ON A HECTIC DAY, BAD WEEK, ETC. ETC. ANOTHER WILD CARD FACTOR.

I ADVISE ADCOM/CAMPUS INTERVIEWS FOR ALL THOSE REASONS, ALTHO IT IS NOT A SUPER DUPER DIFFERENCE, IT IS PZZBLE TO GET A NUTCASE ALUM AND THAT CAN IMPACT OUTCOME. HOW OFTEN? DUNNO?

THERE ARE ALSO PLENTY OF STORIES ABOUT JERK ‘STUDENT-ADCOM’ INTERVIEWS AT WHARTON, BUT THAT DOES NOT LEVEL THE PLAYING FIELD IMHO. 

Just went to Wharton info session.  Admission person said they interviewed 30% of applicants last year and didn’t elaborate. 

From the website the total applicants for class of 2011 is 7493… 30% interviewed would be 2250… 16% accepted would be approximately 1225 and their posted yield was 70% so 862 enrolled.

This 30% interviewed (or 2250) is quite different from the 3000 you quoted for class of 2010…

Perhaps they just threw me a generic 30% number so 30-39% means “30%”  or maybe last year they just interviewed fewer and accepted more from the interviewed pool???

hmmm , dunno, numbers I gave out were fr. Wharton event, altho cudda been class of 09. They are famous for interviewing lots of kids. Maybe they got tired of it. Used to be rule of thumb they inter. fifty percent and took twenty-five percent of that. So now it looks like they interview 30 percent and take 1225/2250 or 54 pct. in line, sorta w. H and S. as a percent of post interview accepts.

Sandy, Do you have a sense as to whether it is harder to get an interview at Stanford or at HBS? ——————————————————————————– HMMMMM,

IN TERMS OF FLAT OUT NUMBERS

1. HBS IS SORTA 1800 INVITES (MAYBE MORE IF CLASS SIZE CONT. TO GO UP 1850) OUT OF LAST YEAR’S 9093 APPS:

2. STAN IS OFFICIALLY 800-1200 INVITES OUT OF LAST YEAR 7536 APPLICATIONS

HMMMMM, SOMEONE DO THE MATH. OK, THAT SOMEONE IS ME

A. HBS 1800/9093=~20 PCT

B. STAN, ASSUMING INVITES ARE 1000, IS 1000/7536=13.25 PCT

C. STAN ASSUMING THE INTERVIEW NUMBER IS ACTUALLY 1200 THEN 1200/7536=15.9 PCT

NOTES:

1. IF HBS ACTUALLY INTERVIEWS 1850-1900 AND STAN INTERVIEWS 1200, IT STARTS TO GET CLOSE,

2. ASSUMING THAT RATIO OF STAN AND HBS TOTAL APPS STAYS THIS YEAR AT 7536/9093?

3. ARE THE APP POOLS STRONGER AT STAN V. HBS  ETC. WELL, LET THE FLAME WARS BEGIN.

4. I WILL SAY, HBS INVITES ARE EASIER TO PREDICT. STAN IS REALLY ODDBALL IN HOW IT SHUFFLES THE SORTA 1500 SOLID KIDS IN TERMS OF STATS/PEDIGREE ETC. OUT OF THE 7536 APPS INTO THE ~450 ADMIT POOL (ENROLL= 385). #mba #hbs

thanks for those stats.

As many have pointed out, McKinsey  kinda has the same filter as HBS so it is not a super surprise. Altho I agree 115 is a lot.

Sandy -

I read your posts religiously while applying and found it very, very helpful. Thanks for all you do.

I’m currently a first year at HBS and as an FYI to all the consultants out there hoping to get in, in the class of 2011, there are actually 115 people who previously worked at McKinsey. This includes people who had internships there or who did 2 years and then went somewhere else, but it is an enormous / ridiculous number when you consider that the whole class is just ~945. More than 10% of the class comes from a single company.

Also 61 from Goldman, 58 from Bain, 59 from BCG.

ds

THE INTERVIEW CAN SCREW YOU–IT CANNOT, IN GENERAL, HELP YOU.

What the HBS interview looks for MOST OF ALL, is your presentation skills and ability to perform in Case Method enviro:

and for some international  kids, just yor ability to speak and compro English – for every  10 kids they interview, they accept about 6–of the four who get dinged in the interview process, ~TWO (2.5)  SELF DING BY SCREWING UP THE INTERVIEW.

The other two just sorta lose out in the general post-interview Beauty Contest (where the whole works are back in play, gpa, gmat, work ex, extras, and maybe some small element of inter performance  etc. etc. ).

How can you blow interview :  let me count the ways! Bad attitude, nervousness, going blah blah, inability to answer drill down question on essays or goals (not stressful as a rule, but some really smart kids freeze, or start BABBLING.

Babbling is major cause of interview failure.  Here is an example, super simple Question, “Tell me about X (fr. resume or essay, e.g. org you led or founded). Instead of being able to execute some simple pts about X, you start way, way back in time telling about pre-history of X, digress, fake left, and 4 heartbreaking but real minutes later, YOU HAVE NOT GOTTEN TO X, AND YOU BOTH KNOW IT. Then you rush thru X and say nothing.

Sinora baby –you just babbled your way out of an HBS ADMIT.  

think I am kidding: here is an email sent fr. a WONDERFUL and Articulate PERSON about the HBS interview, this is CLASSIC–I get calls fr. kids crying on the train back to NYC and this was one of them, I told person maybe not as bad as it seemed, but in my heart of hearts, I knew

Sandy I’m kinda upset.. I was so nervous I could not think straight and just kept rumbling on. The sad part is it should have been easy bcos she asked all the questions you did in our mock interview – and I just couldn’t think.

 She was extremely nice though and soft spoken. She interrupted me once when I was talking about what inspired me to pursue my long term goals and I was talking about how X and Y were improving Health Care and she stopped me and said she would rather hear about me than abt X or Y. My biggest mistake was when she asked exactly what I intended to do to improve HC I just went on and on about what was wrong with the system without providing concrete ways I was going to address those issues.. I’m stilll in shock. I had prepped all these and I couldn’t even believe the words that were coming out of my mouth instead. Anyways I guess what’s done’s done.. Just want to say thanks for all your help..

IS THERE A HAPPY ENDING: WELL, DO YOU CONSIDER STANFORD A HAPPY ENDING???

Sandy - what’s your guess of the % of Round 1 applications that get an
invite from HBS?

hmmm, depends on number of apps, they will pretty much interview 800-850 kids fr R1 pool, so if e.g. 4200, 4500, 5000, 5300 apps (all pzzble altho 4500 a good bet) well do
da math.18-21  percent a good consensus figure.

So assuming HBS admits 12% again - (and first round admits at least 12%) - we are looking at maybe 55-70% of people who got HBS R1 interviews (12% of 18-21% of total R1 applicants) will get offers.

I once heard from an “Wharton insider” that Wharton gives out approximately 40% people interviews and accept 40% of that… hence the 16% overall.  Is this true?

HBS gives fewer interviews but hands out more offers out of the interviewed???
Wharton gives out more interviews but take a smaller % of the interviewed???Standard HBS practice is to interview ~1800 peeps and accept ~1000 for
class of 900 –but last year the class was ~940, so not sure if they int. more or not, aside fr. that.  In years prior,  the 1800 fig is regardless of number of apps!!!!!! so dont go backwards w. the math and yields.

This is very insightful.  Thank you.  Looks like Wharton’s yield is only 69% for class of 2010.  I think on their web they mentioned their class of 2011 yield was around 71%.  I guess they lost applicants to HBS, Stanford, people who decided up to attend… and maybe even CBS’s
R1 Early D.

Columbia’s overall acceptance rate is at 15%… have you ever tried to guestimate CBS’s R1 (early decision) % of applicants interviewed and acceptance rate?  I would assume it to be higher than its other rounds?  That $6000 deposit gotta commit a majority of accepted to
Columbia… and the victims of the CBS ED program are “similar”
programs like Wharton and Chicago?

Columbia’s overall acceptance rate is at 15%… have you ever tried to
guestimate CBS’s R1 (early decision) % of applicants interviewed and
acceptance rate?

haha, that WOULD be an interesting stat, I dont have enuf data  altho I do handle a bunch of COl apps every year. (I do have enuf HBS data to make valid projections in most cases based on my own clients and mock interviews) My guess is,  there are NOT a whole lotta people who 1. Got  dinged at Col if they submit say OCT/NOV who 2.  wudda been an accept ED.  ED rarely changes an outcome for early applicants–but the JOKER at COlumbia is early submission even if you are not ED, get that
app in b4 Dec/Jan. Adcom director is on record about this in subtle ways in prior interviews. There are people who get dinged in Jan/Feb etc. who wudda been accepted in October, even non-ED.  Yes, the 6k/ED deal  does lock up some Wharton maybes. But dude, HBS 2+2 program locks up a whole gifted and talented high school, and keeps it away fr. S/W MIT and maybe COL ED, so it is hard to make the case that Col is being predatory any more. HBS is now the creepy guy driving around w. the open car door and the lollipops.  

Sandy - what’s your guess of the % of Round 1 applications that get an invite from HBS?

4200, 4500, 5000, 5300 apps (all pzzble altho 4500 a good bet) well do da math.

18-21  percent a good concensus figure.