Sandy–Based on your past experience, what is the likelihood of getting off the waitlist at Stanford?  I just found out I was waitlisted.  In your opinion, is there anything I can do to increase my likelihood of turning the waitlist spot into an admit? 

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Sunday, January 27, 2008Liklihood of getting off WL is ~10 percent and could be less, this year. As you know there are 75 kids on WL for R1, if 7 of those get in, that would be A LOT. Use HBS as proxy, last year HBS took 25 kids of WL, and HBS/S class size etc. (and WL ratio, my guess as well ) is 907/379 –for those of you who are division challenged, that is 41.7 percent. Sooooooooo, if HBS took 25 off WL, S might have taken, 10 or 11 kids. To the extent that the schools run in tandem, an assumption you can attack, but not a bad starting point. On the other hand, in previous years, I think this was for class entering in 2006, Stanford data, fr. a reliable source, was

# admits each round

round 1 - 219

round 2 - 235

round 3 - 38 (including 19 from the earlier round waitlists)

Sooooooooooooo, take your pick.  IN other years, Round 3 numbers and WL numbers were less, I believe, in some years,  R3 was like 2-4, not sure about WL.

So, you can mix all that up anyway you want, but to me it reads as follows: IN normal years, chances of getting off WL is ~8-12 percent, in ‘other’ years, chances are way less. No,  I dont know if they put as many kids on WL in R2 (e.g. 75, or more even) but someone can check that fr. last year’s Stanford R2 thread, and please post back.

As to what you can do: find someone whom Bolton would love hearing from and have that person write/ call him, saying you are best things since sliced bread, b.c. 1 2 3 4 –it’s that easy.  

Sandy -
  Waitlisted HBS candidate here.  I understand the “No new materials policy.”  However, I do wish to know what brought about the decision on the waitlist - i.e. what did they see as a weakness in my application.  Does HBS permit these inquiries?  Would asking be viewed as going against their waitlist policies?

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Let me answer this by telling you my favorite joke, which also reminds me that when I do HBS interview prep -http://hbsguru.com/blog/2008/01/25/mock-hbs-interviews-for-round-2/ I also tell kids that they may be asked to tell a joke as part of interview process, sooooo, have one ready (that Q has never been asked to my knowledge but they do often ask for favorite books, movie, or “Convince me to read a book you like a lot…………..” that Q from her Maj herself!!!!)Now being me, this is joke is not going to be funny, but it will be odd and revealing and reflective: and most importantly, it will answer your question fully, if you are smart enuf to interpret it correctly.A long, long line of prisoners have just been pushed out of  cattle cars and assembled to be processed into a Nazi concentration camp [funny already, NO???] and one is particulary insistent on seeing the commandant. He steps out and demands from the guards, “I must see the commandant, I have something urgent to tell him” and the guards immediately surround him and beat him to the ground w. their rifle butts while shouting, “No one can see the commandant.” The guy picks himself up, and again says, “I must see the commandant” and  the guards beat him w. rifle butts, and kick him to the ground, while saying, “NO ONE CAN SEE THE COMMANDANT.”  After five increasingly intense beatings, each time after his insistent, “I MUST SEE THE COMMANDANT” and their reply “NO ONE CAN SEE THE COMMANDANT,  a guard finally shrugs his shoulders in exasperation, and drags the poor fellow to see the commandant. OK, now picture the typical Nazi commandant office, blah blah, and the guard going in there explaining all this to the central-casting commandant….then the guard comes out, drags the guy from the ante-room to the polished office of the  commandant– the commandant rotates on his jack boots, and faces the guy, nearly crumpled on the floor, and says with  “this-better-be good” disdain, “I understand you have something to say to me??”

“Commandant!” the guy says, with his near last wind, “I am so glad to get to speak to you, I was on line with these thousands of other prisoners  and I had to talk to you to tell you something of critical importance, but the guards would not listen….”

” Yes,” says the commandant, “but you are here now, so just what is so important and earth-shattering that you had to tell me in face of five severe beatings?”

“Commandant,” the prisoner says, “I’M INNOCENT!!!”

WE DO HBS MOCK INTERVIEWS– AS ROUND ONE FOLKS BELOW CAN ASSURE YOU:

http://hbsguru.com/prices.html#4

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When it came to the interview, I was amazed as Sandy predicted a line of questioning which I think was paramount in the success of my interview.

——————
I got into HBS!!! (and also Wharton)

Thanks SO much for your help . . . . your advice is spot on. Am sending all my round 2 friends to you for interview help!
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Hi Sandy,

Great News! I got accepted to Harvard.

Thanks for all your help and insights! You really helped highlight some of my unique offerings so I can convey it better in the interview.

—————————————–
I am thrilled to add one more very happy statistic to your lot - I
received an acceptance from HBS!
Thanks for all of your help. I actually think your vote of confidence
helped me most. It allowed me to stop second guessing myself and to go
into my interviews confidant and relaxed. I believe this enabled me to
be myself and have a great conversation with the interviewer.
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 I got into HBS (and Wharton).  I don’t remember much of my interview, except that your service paid for itself and then some when he asked the questions “You have obviously been successful ………… but when have you failed?” and “What are your career goals 10-15 years in the future (they are not in your application)?”  I used the example of ———– (the “wrong model” language you suggested worked very succinctly) for the failure and you also helped me narrow down my career thoughts to turnaround management, which I also used.  My interview was a lot easier than the prep I had with you, which I understand is the whole point.  I am a very satisfied customer.

————————————

Sandy,

I did get in!!! Thanks for your help with the interview prep - it definitely helped a lot!

_________________________

In @ Stanford as well.  Tough decisions abound.
 
Thanks again for the help w/ the interview.
———————————————————–

I’m moving to Boston ;)  I got my acceptance on Wed.
[YOUR] prep helped my interview.  I would definitely advise students on the boards to use your services!
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How does one get accepted to HBS and not even get an interview at Wharton?  By using Sandy for the HBS app. and attempting the Wharton one solo. …  Sandy’s resources and interview help were completely invaluable. Sandy- I could not have done it without you.  Thanks!
———————————-
 
In at HBS!  For those who wonder whether Sandy is worth it, let me tell you first hand that Sandy’s service was the best money I’ve ever spent, and that’s no exaggeration.  He has this uncanny ability to dig through noise and helped me identify the passion and potential that I saw in myself but struggled to articulate. ….This is especially true for his mock interview service….. Sandy saved me from making a fool of myself and prepared me go into the interview as a more reflective, sincere candidate.

That said I’ve heard that there is an option for a candidate to try to reach out to the “Fan Club” of other people who are not bound by HBS rules of not reaching out to them because I am waitlisted. My question is - if i do reach out to the fan club would HBS see that  negatively - is this fairly transparent that I asked someone to write a letter on my behalf.

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Like everything else at HBS, it depends,and use your judgment. There is not much value a current student/co-worker or even boss  can add, in a typical letter, unless there is something deeply substantive that needs stating, e.g. THIS APPLICANT is really going to be impt in field X and reasons why, or something dramatic has happened since you applied (real rare). Whether in light of that it is still worth the trouble, dunno, downside seems slight–unless you bug them, or confirm and lingering issues they had about you. What the hell does that mean? Many kids solid kids (esp. those who have been interviewed) get dinged or WL b.c. of some sense that they are pushy, arrogant, not HBS “type” etc. sooooooooo, if that is YOU and keep pushing harder, that could be a downside. ON the other hand, some post interview kids are branded as not fit for case method back and forth, so in that case, pushing back a bit might help.  Of course in the vast majority of cases, things are not that overt and clear, and reasons for WL vs. Accept are murky, subjective, odd, or just wrong, in those cases no down side, andwho knows, any fan club action could help.

As noted before, what really helps is finding anyone of the 300 people in the world who can really make an impact, and they KNOW WHO THEY ARE, and having them put personal capital on the line in your behalf, via some type of communication (phone, fax, email ) etc. But that is also rare. Many get off WL by just waiting, but, of course, it is also true that the majority of people on WL, the VAST majority, to wit, 80-95 percent, just get dinged no matter what they do.

Soooooooooo, it is mostly a grim business, w. just enuf success stories to make it annoying and agonizing. And what makes it worse, is once you get dinged on WL, even from the last man standing super short WL of like Mid July, you are just the same trash as any new applicant, it is as if your personal drama, and nano-space close call NEVER HAPPENED.

You do not begin next year’s app w.    HEY, REMEMBER ME, ONE OF THE LAST 25 KIDS ON LAST SUMMER’ S WAITLIST. I’m not one of the random 7568 goons applying, I already came sooooooooooooo close, and things this year are even better!!!! Remember those oh-so cozy and warm emails w. WL Lady in May, June, July, etc. It’s me, the WL Kid,

But, of course, you are one of those random 7568 goons.

And people complain about Civil War in Congo, and Iraq etc. when ther real unspoken tragedy in the world is the plight of the reapplying Wait Lister, soooo very sad, and the world just turns the page. TRAGIC!!!!

Any thoughts on interviewing on campus vs w/ alumni for Kellogg ???

Also do you think it’s too late to apply to Columbia –(chances at this point)

My pref. is ALWAYS against alum interviews, because they can be odd, one-off, out-of-line, etc. I feel same away about interviews as I do about surgery, I want to go to person who has performed same procedure MANY times, and most alums often interview 2 or 3 kids a year, or just one, if you are in remote locale. SOooooooo, you are just increasing chances of odd results.  The thing to remember about interviews, almost at ALL schools, is that they are deal BREAKERS not deal makers, despite fantasy you may have about doing sooooooooooooo well on interview that they accept you on the spot, etc. In most cases, you need to survive an interview, and then get in on the rest of your app. A great interview will not bootstrap a marginal app [of which many get interviewed,  how come? as discussed, interviews are in part PR for school, candy for alums, etc as well as what you think they are]. But a bad interview will sink an OK app, and my thinking is, alums are more likely to result in bad interview, for many reasons, including hair across their butt that day, abnormal sense of what a good student should sound like, dementia, etc. etc. As to applying to Col, man, the number of admits fr. apps received  in late Jan could be 15-10 or two, or sumphtin like that , including zero, not sure, but odds are lousy.

A riot at Wharton’s Private Equity conference, featuring union’s complaining about Carlyle’s take over of Manor Nursing homes, is worth reading about, esp. remarks of  Carlyle Group cofounder David Rubenstein to wit

The private equity business is in “purgatory,” and professional investors need to polish their tarnished public image, Carlyle Group cofounder David Rubenstein told the Wharton Private Equity Conference in Center City yesterday.

> As if to underline his point, Rubenstein’s talk to more than 300 investors and students was delayed half an hour when two dozen activists from the Service Employees International Union heckled the head of the $70 billion-asset investment firm, jostling Park Hyatt Hotel security and draping a giant banner in the meeting hall reading, “Carlyle, fix Manor Care nursing homes now.”

full story below

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Does HBS ever consider re-applicants??? Re-applicants who got interview and then dinged.

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all the time, and the outcomes are

 

1. accept

2. inter (2) and ding

3. plain ol’ ding.

 

depending on:

1. any changes in app over time [e.g. improved gmat, better job, more lead exp, better execution, better 2nd int];

2. the pool year 2 vs. year 1;

3. dumb luck. 

Some really shrewd remarks in this Harvard Crimson story about why rich, spoiled kids –when push comes to shove– will ignore morality and work for anyone, esp. some trendy human rights violator. Even tho they will still be yapping trendy PC bromides  all the way to the bank.

Ahem. . .those shrewd remarks are by me.

 

“Student outrage is important but selective and trendy,” says Sanford Kreisberg, an independent consultant who runs the widely-read business school admissions blog HBSGURU.com. “[Paychecks and name brands] are externalities that don’t go into issues of morality.”
Kreisberg points out that other popular employers, such as Google and Yahoo!, have similarly not been affected by alleged unethical business practices.
“Yahoo! has just apologized for giving the Chinese police the names of dissident bloggers, and Google and Microsoft have been accused of the same collusion, but students still favor those companies because they are hip,” he says.

Kraisberg [sic, last year they called me “Sandford,” now they mangle “Kreisberg,” and these are the best and brightest student journalists!!!!]  says that looking at a student’s socioeconomic background could be one way to explain how much company actions will affect his or her decision.

“One important thing to note is that [upper-class] students tend to have these concerns while working class students don’t,” he says. “These students come from wealthy financial backgrounds and have many opportunities as a result.”

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